Airtanker History: Tribute to P-3 Orion

Direct link to post by Scorched Sky Productions on YouTube

A tribute to Aero Union's P-3 Orion. In late July of 2011, the US Forest Service cancelled their contract for Aeo Union's  P-3 Orions. See my July 30, 2011 and August 17, 2011 posts. Gone but not forgotten

Airtankers from 2010

 I have been thinking recently of the Airtankers that were still flying when I started this blog in 2009, in particular the P2V from Neptune Aviation and the Lockheed P-3 Orion from Aero Union. Both are no longer flying. The last P2V was retired a couple of years ago and Lockheed shut down operations about 11 years ago. I wanted to share a video featuring these tankers and remembered a video by Alan Simmons.

In this eight minute video by Alan Simmons shot around 2009 and 2010 you will see the Grumman S2-T flown by CAL Fire (still in service), P2V Neptune, Lockheed P-3 Orion, Canadair CL-215 and 415 (I belive the 415 is still in service, not sure about the 215), and a DC-10 tanker (the DC-10 tanker in this video is no longer flying but 10 Tanker Carrier has a fleet DC-10 tankers flying fires). Alan ends with a section of what were historic tankers at the time he shot this video. Some of you may remember this video as I have shared it here before on a couple of occasions. It is worth seeing again.

Direct link to video by Alan Simmons on YouTube

Reflections on Aero Union's P-3 Orion Air Tanker

When I started to write about aerial wildland firefighting over 10 years ago, I quickly learned about Aero Union's P-3 orion air tanker. I never had the opportunity to know one of her pilots nor did I ever meet her in person. But that does not matter because I got to know her through her reputation and through a myriad of videos of air tanker operations over wildfires. With tanks carrying up to 3,000 gallons of retardant, she was a valuable resource. I loved watching videos of her dropping on fires. Even better was watching her work wildfires in the western United States on live stream.

Those days are gone. The U.S Forest Service cancelled its contracts for Aero Union's P-3's in the summer of 2011. Bill Gabbert of Fire Aviation writes about the efforts to bring the P-3 back to wildland firefighting configuration here.

I want to honor the work of Aero Union's P-3 tankers. I can think of no better way to do so then by sharing a couple of my favorite videos. The first one has no sound For the record, there was a version with sound and a snappy musical track, but I can no longer find it online. Even without sound you will get to see the P-3  working wildfires. 

Direct link to video on Youtube

The second video was done by Scorched Sky Productions in 2011 as a tribute to Aero Union's P-3 tanker after Aero Union lost it's USFS contract.

Direct link to video by Scorched Sky Productions

Reflections on learning about aerial firefighting almost 10 years ago

After  i wrote about P-2 Neptune tankers the other day, I spent some time reflecting on first learning about the business of aerial firefighting nine and ten years ago. I am eternally grateful to some now good friends who helped me learn about the business. I spent a lot of time watching live stream coverage of some of the larger wildfires that were burning in southern California in mid to late 2009. A couple of times, I was watching the live stream as I was exchanging e-mails with one of my former tanker pilot friends. He would share a little about what was going on. I enjoyed seeing the tankers and helos in action, working to help the wildland firefighters on the ground. As they say, one picture is worth a thousand words. The video that I am sharing below is from Alan Simmons of Firestorm HD Production. He uploaded the video to Youtube in April 2010. I believe that at least some of the fire footage is from 2009, perhaps there is footage of some of the wildfires that I was following in 2009. Alan’s footage is a highlight video from a longer DVD that he put out, go here for more information on the video that is available for purchase only. 

I love watching videos like Alan’s of tankers working a wildfire. Elegance in action. What they do is very dangerous. Please remember that if it is very windy or the smoke is very bad tankers and helicopters may not be flying the fire because it is not safe to do so.

The video from Alan Simmons that I have embedded below has about eight minutes of highlights from his 80 minute video. In the first half, you will see footage of the S-2T, P-2 Neptunes, P-3 Orion, Canadair 215/415, and the DC-10. The final three or four minutes includes footage from 1999 of now historic tankers including some footage of T-123 which crashed in 2002.

Direct link to video from Alan Simmons on Youtube

Aero Union P-3's - I miss you

Four days ago (see this article from chicoer.com), I heard that Aero Union laid off their employees. When I first heard that the US Forest Service terminated its contract with Aero Union on July 29th, I was hoping for another outcome, that something could be worked out to get Aero Union's P-3 tankers back in the air. But it seems my hopes, our hopes did not come to pass. Pilots, crew and others at Aero Union have been laid off.

I know enough about the business of aerial wildland firefighting to know that for many of you, who you are is about flying tankers or fixing tankers or performing other ground support operations. And of course, you are now without a job in an already tough economic climate.

You did great work flying fires. While I have never seen you in person, so to speak, I have watched you fly fires on live stream at fires such as the Station Fire in 2009. It was awesome to watch you lay down a line of retardant on a fire, knowing that you might be able to come around again and drop the rest of your retardant before going back to base to reload. Knowing how much you were helping the crews on the ground fight the fire.

You will be missed.

In my own way, I am writing this for all affected by the lay offs at Aero Union, to let you know that I care. And it stinks.

I am not embarrassed to say that I have shed a few tears for you.

P-3 drop at Wallow Fire (AZ)

Updated on August 3, 2015: The US Forest Service terminated its contract with Aero-Union for their Lockheed P-3's, going out of business a month later. (see my articles of July 30, 2011, August 17, 2011, and January 18, 2012). 

They (as in the P-3's) are baack

By now I suspect that some of you already know that Aero Union's P-3 tankers are back in the air, see this National Examiner Article by Bill Gabbert. I'd like to thank a friend who sent me the link to Bill's article over the weekend.

I thought that some of you would enjoy seeing these short clips of the P-3 tankers in action.









Updated on August 3, 2015: The US Forest Service terminated its contract with Aero-Union for their Lockheed P-3's, going out of business a month later. (see my articles of July 30, 2011, August 17, 2011, and January 18, 2012). 

Texas wildfire update #1

This video was posted on the Abilene Reporter News website this morning. The video shows footage of the Wildcat Fire near Grape Creek. The Albilene Reporter News has a nice page of fire photos.

Bill Gabbert of Wildfire Today has been doing a good job reporting on the Texas Wildfires. He reports here on the C-130 MAFFS working the fire with three videos of the C-130s that you may want to check out. Another article, this one on a fire threatening McDonald Observatory may be found here.

Firefighter death

Finally Bill reports on some sad news here, on the death of a Firefighter Jaquez who suffered third degree burns while fighting one of the Texas wildfires a few days ago. Another article on Mr. Jaquez's death may be found here. My deep condolences to Mr. Jaquez's family, friends, colleagues, and all who loved him.

Aero Union

There were a couple of stories yesterday on the Reporter News website about the grounding of the Aero Union P-3 fleet, the first one may be found here. In a second article early yesterday evening (4/19/11), they report on discussions between Aero Union and Texas Governor Perry's Office to "try to resolve the issue on the (Texas) State level." To the best of my knowledge, the three P-3s were still on the ground in Abilene.

Updated on August 3, 2015: The US Forest Service terminated its contract with Aero-Union for their Lockheed P-3's, going out of business a month later. (see my articles of July 30, 2011, August 17, 2011, and January 18, 2012). 

Aero Union P-3s grounded

Over the course of time that I have been writing about aerial wildland firefighting I have gained a growing appreciation for just how complicated the business of aerial wildland firefighting is. I have learned that what the tanker and helo pilots, and ground crews do is complicated.

There is more. I have an awareness -- often only a vague awareness -- that there is much that goes on in the business of aerial wildland firefighting that I do not know about, things that have to be in place in order to keep the tankers and helos flying. About all I can say about such matters is that the tanker and helo business is complicated.

I was again reminded of such complexities when I first heard that Aero Union's P-3 tankers were grounded late in the day last Wednesday, April 13, see this Lubbock Online report dated April 14.

As reported by wildfire today on April 15 who, in an update, referenced this 4/16/11 article from Lubbock Online, the P-3s remain grounded. According to the April 16 article from Lubbock Online, Aero Union officials are meeting with representatives from the US Forest Service and the Federal Aviation Administration this Tuesday in LA to discuss the matter of the P-3s.

To the best of my knowledge, the 11 P-2V air tankers (9 from Neptune and 2 from Minden) are not affected by whatever lead to the grounding of the P-3s. Some are already on contract and available for aerial firefighting, and others will be going on contract in the coming weeks.

As the 2011 wildfire season gets started in the southwest and the west, and is already well underway in Texas, let us hope and pray for a speedy resolution so that the P-3s can be back in the air again soon.

Updated on August 3, 2015: The article here reports on what was a temporary grounding, and the P-3's were flying again about three days later. The US Forest Service terminated its contract with Aero-Union for their Lockheed P-3's, going out of business a month later. (see my articles of July 30, 2011, August 17, 2011, and January 18, 2012). 

Great footage of Airtankers in action

Happy New Year everyone, a couple of days late. A friend told me about this very cool video of a P-3 Orion in action so I am sharing it with you today. Beautiful footage!

Tomorrow, I'll be starting a new series of articles on fog and other visibility concerns as applies to flying fires. Stay tuned.

Addendum: A couple of tanker pilot friends pointed out to me that much of the footage in this video is several years old. But it is a great montage of tanker footage. Enjoy!

Updated on August 3, 2015: The US Forest Service terminated its contract with Aero-Union for their Lockheed P-3's, going out of business a month later. (see my articles of July 30, 2011, August 17, 2011, and January 18, 2012). 

Tanker 21 drop near Mt. Wilson

Awesome video of an AeroUnion Orion P-3, tanker 21, making a drop near Mt. Wilson, uploaded on September 6.

Updated on August 3, 2015: The US Forest Service terminated its contract with Aero-Union for their Lockheed P-3's, going out of business a month later. (see my articles of July 30, 2011, August 17, 2011, and January 18, 2012). 

Air drop on La Brea fire

And here is some very awesome footage of an AeroUnion P-3 (tanker 27?) making a drop on the La Brea Fire.

Updated on August 3, 2015: The US Forest Service terminated its contract with Aero-Union for their Lockheed P-3's, going out of business a month later. (see my articles of July 30, 2011, August 17, 2011, and January 18, 2012). 

A couple of revisions to post on the Lockheed P-3 Orion

I made some revisions to yesterdays post to the first paragraph on terminology. I also added an acknowledgment thanking TL Stein for his continued help.

Lockheed P-3 Orion

Before I begin, I want to discuss some terminology. For brevity, when I write about multi-engine air tankers, I will use the term air tanker(s). If for some reason I need to refer to single engine air tankers, I will use the term SEATs (as I have been doing in recent entries). I believe that st. miles refers to statute miles. The number of gates refers to the retardant drop hardware on the air tanker. I thought it useful to define what an air tanker is and found this definition on an Interagency Airtanker Board webpage: “An airtanker is defined as an aerial delivery system configured for the purpose of dispensing water, fire retardant, or fire suppressant material from a fixed tank that controls the rate of delivery. The aerial delivery system includes the tank system and the aircraft.”

Finally, I again want to thank TL Stein for his help in providing me with the specifications and other pertinent data and information about the various air tankers that I am writing about.

The Lockheed P-3, like many other types of multi-engine air tankers used for aerial fire fighting, both currently flying and those “retired” from active service, are former military aircraft converted for use as air tankers. A four-engine turbo-prop, it’s military use was for submarine surveillance by the U.S. Navy. The military version, know as the Lockheed P-3 Orion was first put in military service around 1961. The wings sit low on the fuselage. It is a fast aircraft, can take-off on a shorter runway, can carries three thousand gallons of retardant.

Those of you who might be familiar with the air tankers currently under nationwide contract here in the U.S. might be aware that the Lockheed P-3 Orion was the successor to the U.S. Navy’s Lockheed P-2 (aka P2V) Neptune. The Lockheed P2V was also converted for use as a fire fighting air tanker. Given that the P2V has been around longer (first in service around 1945), it might make sense for me to write about the P2V first. I am unable to do that as I have a little more work to do before I write about the P2V. But stay tuned. The write up of the P2V will be coming soon.

Back to the Lockheed P-3.

Specs:

length (ft): 106
wing span (ft): 99
turning radius (ft): 65
cruise speed (mph): 275/320
range loaded (st. miles): 2,300
gross weight (lbs): 105,000
contract op.wt (lbs): 97,000
retardant loads: 3,000 gallons
number of gates: 1

Aero Union is the sole operator and fabricator of the P-3. In 2008, they had eight P-3’s on the federal contract air tanker list. You might want to spend a little time exploring their website to learn more about their P-3’s. Posting urls to specific web pages does not seem to work well, so I have not done this. However, if you click on flight operations in the menu on the left hand side of the page you will go to the flight operations web page where you may click on a link for aerial firefighting to learn more about their P-3 based aerial fire fighting program.

Aero Union also has a good P-3 photo gallery with some good shots of their P-3’s in action. From their main or home page, click on photo gallery to go to their main photo gallery then click on “Aero Union’s P-3’s in action”.

There are three good, short videos of P-3’s in action on you tube:

Tom's Branch Fire Retardant Drop
Bear Divide Hotshots, 2006

Updated on August 3, 2015: The US Forest Service terminated its contract with Aero-Union for their Lockheed P-3's, going out of business a month later. (see my articles of July 30, 2011, August 17, 2011, and January 18, 2012). The link to Aero Union's old website no longer work.

Updated on November 30, 2017: New link to Interagency Airtanker Board